Re: [mv] use of demos as starting point

[Hans-Joachim Leidinger <jojo@buchonline.net>]

******    message to minivend-users from Hans-Joachim Leidinger <jojo@buchonline.net>     ******

Birgitt Funk schrieb:
> ******    message to minivend-users from Birgitt Funk <birgitt@my-books.com>     ******
[DEL]
> Why did the documentation project failed last year ?
> 
> The answer I give myself is simple. There are not enough people out
> there who have enough technical insight in the Minivend source code
> to translate what is happening in the program a.) into MV tag
> syntax and then b.) into English for beginners.

I believe, this is not true, because there are a lot of people with good
experience in MiniVend (and Perl too).
I think, the common problem is "How to manage a document project with
some or a lot of people?" or "How to organize such kind of project?" and
"How to manage/organize the results of this project?". This was maybe
the same problem with www.minivend.org.
Other fact is, people with good experience in MiniVend has to do their
own works (building any shop/e-commerce for the customer and so on) and
I think, this people has (maybe) interest to share the own experience
with MiniVend, because the more people is using Minivend so much
customers would asking for any solutions by MiniVend.

 
> I figured as a complete outsider that I need _at least_ one and half
> years of fulltime study to be able to understand MV and use it for
> business purposes.

If you or any newbie are familiar in HTML, you can use any MV tags as a
HTML tags first. 
The most common trouble or problems is:

- All newbies want to get _all_ features from MiniVend at the first
times. I've wanted this too!
  (for example ENCRYPTOR, CYBERCASH and so on)

- Most MV tags have the same "outfit"/"looking" as [any-MV-tag], but
some [any-MV-tag] is a variable ([value mv_anyname]), some [any-MV-tag]
is a function ([db-count products]), some [any-MV-tag] is a UserTag
([loc]...[/loc]) and so on. All this tags can't not handle on the same
way always ([if value mv_anyname = xyz] works always, [if [data
table="xyz"....]] should not works always, etc.)

The another most common problems (this is important) is:

- People don't visit the mail archivs enough.

- People don't use a test page to test an new unknown MiniVend tag. 

  (I think, I've a good experience to use MiniVend, but I still visiting
the mail archivs often to get any answer for my questions and in most
common case, I find an answer and at last, i find a hint to get a
solutions by myself.)


[DEL]
> 
> I have had a hard time to make one and half years free time to do this.
> I could imagine other outsiders have the same problem. But outsiders
> are coming in and try to use Minivend...and are going to ask _many_
> questions.

Hmmm...Birgitt...I'm in a muddle. Did I understand you right? Did you
make anything with MiniVend? Why can't I see any question about any MV
codes? You know, my English is poor!
 
> The sad part about the whole thing is, that naturally the outsiders are
> the ones who want a good documentation the most, and even if they like
> to help and work on it (like I do) they are not up to the level
> where they really can work _with_ others on a group project which
> demands already a high level of technical background knowledge the
> beginner needs still to acquire.

After watching this mailing list since ca. 2 years, I see two groups of
the outsiders. One groups (A) didn't visiting the mail archivs and read
the manual once and once more again and the other groups (B) make an
effort to get any informations to answer the questions by itself. I can
see more difference in the group (A). There are a "subgroup" of people,
who can't read the answer of this list carefully. This people seems to
me are "hard hearing" or "blind" to follow the friendly hints of the
people of this list.

After thinking about this behavior, I noticed the difference between
this mailing list and other mailing list.
In this list, I did never get any short summary or short informations
about MiniVend (URL to xyz, URL to FQA or any kind of short
guidance/instruction of ""How to use MV, MV mail list..", "How to
do...if...-> mailarchivs..", "How to ask this list..." and so on). 2
years ago, after any subscribing of any mailing list, I get a short
summary about the mailing list. In some mailing list, I get this kind of
guidance/instructions periodically and this (so I think) is important.
But I've not get this from MiniVend. This is not any kind of criticism
about or to M.H (I love MV! :-)) ). But I think, it is time to offer or
realize that.
 
[DEL]

This is my 2 cents!

Regards,

	Joachim

-- 
-------------Hans-Joachim Leidinger---------------------

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