[Camps-users] Integration with related projects

Greg Sabino Mullane greg at endpoint.com
Wed Dec 17 17:25:21 UTC 2008

> * "Moose sucks": I disagree generally.  In Perl land, Moose is a great
> option.  I would assert that it isn't the best choice for the needs of
> this project.

Let me clarify that the Moose implementation itself is generally fine
(with some notable exceptions), but the speed - yikes! It's the only
module I've ever come across - with the exception of those doing lots of
complex math (e.g. SSH stuff) - that causes a user-noticeable slowdown
in your code. I know there are some partial workarounds, but I consider
the speed hit a major negative at the moment.

> * "The company has at least ... Perl experience": this is true.  The
> project is currently predominantly an End Point thing.  But it's free
> software.  It's not in a beautiful state, but it's out there for others
> to pull in from Git, use, extend, etc.  The realities of who is likely
> to do work on this need to factor in, but let's acknowledge that the
> camp system community and the End Point engineering staff are not the
> same thing.

For the moment, I suspect they are. :) However, point taken about
reaching a wider audience. Perhaps the (erroneous) perception of Perl as
a dying language would mean more potential camp developers if we choose
a "hipper" language. (By the way, anyone who uses the word 'PHP' in this
thread will be hurt, badly)

> * "No objections to trying out Ruby": good to hear.  :)  It's a fun
> language.

It is, and I'm generally glad to see it maturing well lately (realizing
that unicode is actually important, polishing their CPAN-equivalent
system, doing things that *aren't* Rails).

> * Objections to Python: I think Perl folks tend to object to some of the
> fundamental choices of Python (i.e. treating you like a baby by forcing
> you to use one prescribed style of whitespace, etc.).  But I've found in
> recent study that if you focus on what Python tries to achieve with such
> choices, it's less jarring, more understandable, and something you can
> just accept and move past.  But I digress.

The whitespace is certainly the gorilla in the room for Python. One
sample problem: no way to find out what level a certain statement is in:
for other languages, your editor of choice can match up the closing
brace. A bigger problem I see is that Python has no natural niche,
except for those that just Don't Want to Use Perl. Sure, it has nice
classes and stuff, but you might as well use Ruby to gain those benefits
at this point. Other problem: their database drivers are not as good as
the Perl and Ruby versions.

Greg Sabino Mullane greg at endpoint.com 610-983-9073
End Point Corporation
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8

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