From racke at linuxia.de  Wed Aug 15 04:47:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Wed Aug 15 04:47:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Re: [ic] IC 4.8.1 installation docs
In-Reply-To: murahashi@ayayu.com's message of "Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:47:42 +0900"
References: <JFEIIKIBEKIIMABHEPCJAEKMDDAA.jason@itchoices.com> <04b601c12534$a82d4230$14bc7cd3@zaq.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <87snetpv71.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

murahashi at ayayu.com writes:

> Hi,
> 
> IC4.8.1, I would like to modify the <Meta charset> setting in the admin
> pages
> to show Japanese language.
> 
> [scratch meta_header][set meta_header][/set]
> are in lib/UI/vars/UI_STD_HEAD.
> 
> How and where should I define meta_header ?
> Or should I replace the whole with <Meta http-equiv ......charset=......> ?
> 
> I hope that I will be able to define <Meta charset> in lib/UI/locales/xx_XX
> or another
> definition file.

Do you want to display product descriptions in Japanese or translate
the UI to Japanese ?

Please continue the discussion on interchange-i18n at interchange.redhat.com.

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From djenkins at redhat.com  Wed Aug 15 09:32:01 2001
From: djenkins at redhat.com (Dave Jenkins)
Date: Wed Aug 15 09:32:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
Message-ID: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com>

Hi.

I saw the note to Murahashi-san about this list for his
internationalization efforts...  I would like to help on the conversion
of the Admin UI to Japanese.

1. What is this list?

2. What can I do to help?  (I speak Japanese and have Red Hat 7.1J
running...)

Thanks,

Dave

-- 
----------
Dave Jenkins
Engagement Manager
Professional Services

djenkins at redhat.com
703.456.2944
----------


From racke at linuxia.de  Wed Aug 15 09:50:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Wed Aug 15 09:50:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
In-Reply-To: Dave Jenkins's message of "Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:36:34 -0400"
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

Dave Jenkins <djenkins at redhat.com> writes:

> Hi.
> 
> I saw the note to Murahashi-san about this list for his
> internationalization efforts...  I would like to help on the conversion
> of the Admin UI to Japanese.
> 
> 1. What is this list?

This list is for any i18n issues related to Interchange.

> 
> 2. What can I do to help?  (I speak Japanese and have Red Hat 7.1J
> running...)
> 

You can make the Japanese translation for the UI :-)

First, I would like to know what requirements have to met
to get Japanese displayed. A correct character set has
to be set in the pages, right ? 

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From djenkins at redhat.com  Wed Aug 15 10:15:00 2001
From: djenkins at redhat.com (Dave Jenkins)
Date: Wed Aug 15 10:15:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com>

"Stefan Hornburg (Racke)" wrote:
> 
> Dave Jenkins <djenkins at redhat.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi.
> >
> > I saw the note to Murahashi-san about this list for his
> > internationalization efforts...  I would like to help on the conversion
> > of the Admin UI to Japanese.
> >
> > 1. What is this list?
> 
> This list is for any i18n issues related to Interchange.

Okay-- I signed up.

> 
> >
> > 2. What can I do to help?  (I speak Japanese and have Red Hat 7.1J
> > running...)
> >
> 
> You can make the Japanese translation for the UI :-)

I'll get started as soon as I hear back from Murahashi-san.  Between the
two of us, we should get this put together.

> 
> First, I would like to know what requirements have to met
> to get Japanese displayed. A correct character set has
> to be set in the pages, right ?

Correct.  ISO-2022-JP is the most common.
Although it will work by simply removing all of those tags, it is better
to set them to the correct code.

Can you tell me which files I need to change and/or create? (please
include paths)
I can write in Kanji in emacs, so I should have no problem...

Thanks,

Dave
-- 
----------
Dave Jenkins
Engagement Manager
Professional Services

djenkins at redhat.com
703.456.2944
----------


From racke at linuxia.de  Wed Aug 15 10:34:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Wed Aug 15 10:34:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
In-Reply-To: Dave Jenkins's message of "Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:21:04 -0400"
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <87pu9xcs05.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

Dave Jenkins <djenkins at redhat.com> writes:


[...]

> > 
> > You can make the Japanese translation for the UI :-)
> 
> I'll get started as soon as I hear back from Murahashi-san.  Between the
> two of us, we should get this put together.
> 
> > 
> > First, I would like to know what requirements have to met
> > to get Japanese displayed. A correct character set has
> > to be set in the pages, right ?
> 
> Correct.  ISO-2022-JP is the most common.
> Although it will work by simply removing all of those tags, it is better
> to set them to the correct code.
> 
> Can you tell me which files I need to change and/or create? (please
> include paths)

OK. Which is the locale for japanese ? jp_JP ?

> I can write in Kanji in emacs, so I should have no problem...

Is there any special treatment needed for the Japanese translation,
e.g. can it be stored in plain text files ?

I run Emacs too, so at least I have the chance to control if
your translation looks like Japanese or just ordinary bit
crap :-)

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From djenkins at redhat.com  Wed Aug 15 10:47:00 2001
From: djenkins at redhat.com (Dave Jenkins)
Date: Wed Aug 15 10:47:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com> <87pu9xcs05.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <3B7A8CB9.8F790B7D@redhat.com>

"Stefan Hornburg (Racke)" wrote:
> 
> Dave Jenkins <djenkins at redhat.com> writes:
> 
> [...]
> OK. Which is the locale for japanese ? jp_JP ?

ja_JP

> 
> > I can write in Kanji in emacs, so I should have no problem...
> 
> Is there any special treatment needed for the Japanese translation,
> e.g. can it be stored in plain text files ?

Yes, it can be stored in plain text files-- but remember that these are
double-bit characters.  Make sure your fonts are in place to read
correctly.

> 
> I run Emacs too, so at least I have the chance to control if
> your translation looks like Japanese or just ordinary bit
> crap :-)

Great-- please give me a list of files I need to edit (I can do the
graphical buttons too)

yoroshiku,

Dave


From murahashi at ayayu.com  Wed Aug 15 21:04:01 2001
From: murahashi at ayayu.com (murahashi at ayayu.com)
Date: Wed Aug 15 21:04:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com> <87pu9xcs05.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8CB9.8F790B7D@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c125f2$bf226420$14bc7cd3@zaq.ne.jp>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Jenkins" <djenkins at redhat.com>
To: <interchange-i18n at interchange.redhat.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [interchange-i18n] was is das?


> "Stefan Hornburg (Racke)" wrote:
> >
> > Dave Jenkins <djenkins at redhat.com> writes:
> >
> > [...]
> > OK. Which is the locale for japanese ? jp_JP ?
>
> ja_JP
>
> >
> > > I can write in Kanji in emacs, so I should have no problem...
> >
> > Is there any special treatment needed for the Japanese translation,
> > e.g. can it be stored in plain text files ?
>
> Yes, it can be stored in plain text files-- but remember that these are
> double-bit characters.  Make sure your fonts are in place to read
> correctly.
>
I tried translate lib/Ui/locales/ja_JP.cfg and it is working well.

> >
> > I run Emacs too, so at least I have the chance to control if
> > your translation looks like Japanese or just ordinary bit
> > crap :-)
>
> Great-- please give me a list of files I need to edit (I can do the
> graphical buttons too)
>
I also changed some  buttons for Japanese and placed them interchange/ja_JP.
NO Problem.

The problem is that Japanese 2-byte/8bits character not displayed. I suppose
UI
encode 8bit code. For example, edit table page does not display Kanji, but
spreadsheet
edit page shows them well.
I use EUC-jp, not iso-2022-JP which JIS code, 7bit code.

Any suggestion?

There are some other issues such as currency, state, tax, email encoding,
...

S.Murahashi

> yoroshiku,
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> interchange-i18n mailing list
> interchange-i18n at interchange.redhat.com
> http://interchange.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-i18n
>



From tommi.labermo at surfnet.fi  Thu Aug 16 01:42:01 2001
From: tommi.labermo at surfnet.fi (Tommi Labermo)
Date: Thu Aug 16 01:42:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Some minor errors in the Admin UI translations.
Message-ID: <3B7B5C8D.8000701@surfnet.fi>

Hello everybody.


Has anyone else, but me, experienced any problems with the translation 
of the "Create new customer" section of the Admin UI?? It only shows 
some of the Metafields, even in the English translation, and the rest of 
the fields is just the name of the database entries.

Is this a bug (or feature) in the new 4.8.1 release? Or have I missed 
out on something in the locale files?

Ohh.. I'm running 4.8.1 on a R.H. 6.2

PS. Racke, I have a new, better and more complete Swedish translation, 
I'll send it to you as soon as I've checked it for typos. DS.

Cheers




From racke at linuxia.de  Thu Aug 16 06:21:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Thu Aug 16 06:21:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Some minor errors in the Admin UI translations.
In-Reply-To: Tommi Labermo's message of "Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:39:25 +0300"
References: <3B7B5C8D.8000701@surfnet.fi>
Message-ID: <87u1z81f2d.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

Tommi Labermo <tommi.labermo at surfnet.fi> writes:

> Hello everybody.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else, but me, experienced any problems with the translation 
> of the "Create new customer" section of the Admin UI?? It only shows 
> some of the Metafields, even in the English translation, and the rest of 
> the fields is just the name of the database entries.
> 
> Is this a bug (or feature) in the new 4.8.1 release? Or have I missed 
> out on something in the locale files?

Yes, it is a bug in the mv_metadata.asc of the foundation catalog.
I already reported it (on ic-users, I think), but nobody cared
to fix it.

> 
> Ohh.. I'm running 4.8.1 on a R.H. 6.2
> 
> PS. Racke, I have a new, better and more complete Swedish translation, 
> I'll send it to you as soon as I've checked it for typos. DS.

Fine

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From racke at linuxia.de  Thu Aug 16 07:41:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Thu Aug 16 07:41:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
In-Reply-To: murahashi@ayayu.com's message of "Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:28:24 +0900"
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com> <87pu9xcs05.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8CB9.8F790B7D@redhat.com> <004a01c125f2$bf226420$14bc7cd3@zaq.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <87wv44xmfx.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

murahashi at ayayu.com writes:


[...]

> >
> > Great-- please give me a list of files I need to edit (I can do the
> > graphical buttons too)
> >
> I also changed some  buttons for Japanese and placed them interchange/ja_JP.
> NO Problem.

Can you please send me (not to the list !) the ja_JP.cfg and the buttons so
I can add them to the Interchange source code ?

> 
> The problem is that Japanese 2-byte/8bits character not displayed. I suppose
> UI
> encode 8bit code. For example, edit table page does not display Kanji, but
> spreadsheet
> edit page shows them well.
> I use EUC-jp, not iso-2022-JP which JIS code, 7bit code.

Can you send me a example database with 8bit entries ?

> 
> Any suggestion?
> 
> There are some other issues such as currency, state, tax, email encoding,
> ...

Currency should work. Can you describe the problems more detailed ?

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From djenkins at redhat.com  Thu Aug 16 15:31:01 2001
From: djenkins at redhat.com (Dave Jenkins)
Date: Thu Aug 16 15:31:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] gokuro-sama
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com> <87pu9xcs05.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8CB9.8F790B7D@redhat.com> <004a01c125f2$bf226420$14bc7cd3@zaq.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <3B7C20CB.C76DEB5A@redhat.com>

murahashi at ayayu.com wrote:
> I tried translate lib/Ui/locales/ja_JP.cfg and it is working well.

[snip]

> I also changed some  buttons for Japanese and placed them interchange/ja_JP.
> NO Problem.
> 
> The problem is that Japanese 2-byte/8bits character not displayed. I suppose
> UI
> encode 8bit code. For example, edit table page does not display Kanji, but
> spreadsheet
> edit page shows them well.
> I use EUC-jp, not iso-2022-JP which JIS code, 7bit code.
> 
> Any suggestion?
> 
> There are some other issues such as currency, state, tax, email encoding,
> ...

Gokurosama Murahasi-san!
EUC-jp is probably a good idea.  Let's name that locale file
ja_JP.euc-jp just to leave room for the other Japanese encodings (if
someone develops them).

Please send me your ja_JP.cfg file and I will work with Jon (and Mike)
here to work out the remaining display issues.

Arigatou!

Dave


From jon at redhat.com  Thu Aug 16 15:45:00 2001
From: jon at redhat.com (Jon Jensen)
Date: Thu Aug 16 15:45:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
In-Reply-To: <87wv44xmfx.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0108161543030.1739-100000@louche.swelter.net>

On 16 Aug 2001, Stefan Hornburg (Racke) wrote:

> Can you please send me (not to the list !) the ja_JP.cfg and the buttons so
> I can add them to the Interchange source code ?
>
> > The problem is that Japanese 2-byte/8bits character not displayed. I suppose
> > UI
> > encode 8bit code. For example, edit table page does not display Kanji, but
> > spreadsheet
> > edit page shows them well.
> > I use EUC-jp, not iso-2022-JP which JIS code, 7bit code.

We should make sure to call this ja_JP.EUC-JP, to reflect the encoding.
ja_JP alone won't mean anything, since there are at least 3 other common
Japanese encodings that we will want to support sooner or later. In
/usr/share/locale on my machine there is:

ja_JP.EUC-JP
ja_JP.UTF-8
ja_JP.ujis

And Dave Jenkins mentioned iso-2022-JP, which may be yet another one.

Jon



From murahashi at ayayu.com  Fri Aug 17 22:09:01 2001
From: murahashi at ayayu.com (murahashi at ayayu.com)
Date: Fri Aug 17 22:09:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] was is das?
References: <3B7A7AE2.F6FDA323@redhat.com> <878zgle8m3.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8550.E5F90E2A@redhat.com> <87pu9xcs05.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <3B7A8CB9.8F790B7D@redhat.com> <004a01c125f2$bf226420$14bc7cd3@zaq.ne.jp> <87wv44xmfx.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <000f01c1278e$2897f090$14bc7cd3@zaq.ne.jp>

I have a problem on edit page on IC4.8.
Fro example, when I edit flypage.html, HTML appeared below.

<IMG SRC="/interchange/ja_JP/items/[item-field image]" ALT="[item-filter
entities][item-description][/item-filter]" title="[item-filter
entities][item-description][/item-filter]" BORDER=0>

There is no image in "/interchange/ja_JP/items/os28075.gif" , the image
location is ayayu.com/foundation/images/items/os28075.gif
So, after edit flypage.html, images are not dislplyed.
What happened? Should I define some pass por directory?

Original source in interchange/foundation/pages/flypage.html is:
<IMG SRC="items/[item-field image]" ALT="[item-filter
entities][item-description][/item-filter]" title="[item-filter
entities][item-description][/item-filter]" BORDER=0>

Thanks
Murahashi



From chen at lilux.co.il  Tue Aug 21 22:52:01 2001
From: chen at lilux.co.il (Chen Naor)
Date: Tue Aug 21 22:52:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
Message-ID: <014601c12abd$d4729870$0800a8c0@veriton>

Hello List,

I'm an old Minivend user and I decided that is time to move on to
interchange.
I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.
The Normal translation is easy and I can see the Hebrew characters with no
problems.
But as usual the main issue with Hebrew is that it is written from right to
left.
I think that a good solution will be to add in the locale files the
variable:

"ltr",
undef,   <-- for the left to right languages

"ltr",
"rtl",     <-- for the right to left languages (Hebrew & Arabic & Persian)

Now when you need to change the direction of the text, table, page etc' you
just put DIR="[L]ltr[/L]".
I tried to change the page direction by inserting
<html dir=[L]ltr[/L]> in:  UI/vars/UI_STD_HEAD
but it was not translate it.
So I ended (for now) doing this:
In UI/pages/admin/login.html I added:
[seti direction]dir=[L]ltr[/L][/seti] <--adding this line
@_UI_STD_HEAD_@

And in UI/vars/UI_STD_HEAD I added:
<html [scratch direction]>

The result is that the entire page is displayed from right to left, and make
mess from all the graphics (it is the result I wanted).
But there always an option to put this variable in other places.

The bad thing in this method is that I have to put the line [seti
direction]dir=[L]ltr[/L][/seti]
in all the pages.
If it will be possible to put it directly in UI/vars/UI_STD_HEAD it will
solve the problem.
So my question is: Is there a way to make the interpolation of the [L] [/L]
tag inside of the vars file (UI_STD_HEAD)?

Thanks in advance

Chen Naor
Lilux Systems.
Israel
http://www.lilux.co.il
email: chen at lilux.co.il




From racke at linuxia.de  Wed Aug 22 04:41:00 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Wed Aug 22 04:41:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
In-Reply-To: "Chen Naor"'s message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:51:07 +0200"
References: <014601c12abd$d4729870$0800a8c0@veriton>
Message-ID: <87elq4pjwg.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

"Chen Naor" <chen at lilux.co.il> writes:

> Hello List,
> 
> I'm an old Minivend user and I decided that is time to move on to
> interchange.
> I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
> I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.
> The Normal translation is easy and I can see the Hebrew characters with no
> problems.
> But as usual the main issue with Hebrew is that it is written from right to
> left.

Thank for your quite helpful suggestion, Chen !

IMHO the best way to do this:
Add MV_LANG_DIRECTION=ltr to default.cfg, any "special" locales
may change this.
The usertag mm_locale (called by every UI page) 
will set a scratch variable accordingly and this
sets the direction in UI_STD_HEAD.

What do you think ?

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From jon at redhat.com  Wed Aug 22 11:28:00 2001
From: jon at redhat.com (Jon Jensen)
Date: Wed Aug 22 11:28:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
In-Reply-To: <014601c12abd$d4729870$0800a8c0@veriton>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0108221126260.1301-100000@louche.swelter.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Chen Naor wrote:

> I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
> I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.

Tov me'od! Could you send a rough draft of the he_IL.cfg file so I can
test it out too? I think Stefan's suggestion for an rtl setting is the
best way to do it.

Thanks,
Jon



From djenkins at redhat.com  Wed Aug 22 11:34:00 2001
From: djenkins at redhat.com (Dave Jenkins)
Date: Wed Aug 22 11:34:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0108221126260.1301-100000@louche.swelter.net>
Message-ID: <3B83D268.2E3AB0AA@redhat.com>

Jon Jensen wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Chen Naor wrote:
> 
> > I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
> > I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.
> 
> Tov me'od! Could you send a rough draft of the he_IL.cfg file so I can
> test it out too? I think Stefan's suggestion for an rtl setting is the
> best way to do it.
> 

I would agree.   My old job involved a lot of website localization, and
we finally settled on a 'global setting' for the entire site to turn it
from LTR --> RTL.  Notably, our work was in Arabic.  If we could get
Interchange to play nice on this one, there's a real shot at a very
large market...


From chen at lilux.co.il  Wed Aug 22 16:41:00 2001
From: chen at lilux.co.il (Chen Naor)
Date: Wed Aug 22 16:41:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0108221126260.1301-100000@louche.swelter.net>
Message-ID: <006101c12b53$1d896cb0$0800a8c0@veriton>

Hi Jon,
Give me a few days more because I did it wile working all night (until 6:30
AM).
I have to read the file and fix the typo that are definitely there.
But don't worry I will submit it.
Chen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Jensen" <jon at redhat.com>
To: <interchange-i18n at interchange.redhat.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale


> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Chen Naor wrote:
>
> > I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
> > I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.
>
> Tov me'od! Could you send a rough draft of the he_IL.cfg file so I can
> test it out too? I think Stefan's suggestion for an rtl setting is the
> best way to do it.
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
> _______________________________________________
> interchange-i18n mailing list
> interchange-i18n at interchange.redhat.com
> http://interchange.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-i18n



From mteixeira at webset.net  Wed Aug 22 18:43:00 2001
From: mteixeira at webset.net (Mauricio Teixeira)
Date: Wed Aug 22 18:43:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] pt_Br being worked on
Message-ID: <20010822194935-3384-32164@workset.webset.net>

Just to let you know, my name is Mauricio, I'm brazilian and I'm currently
working on localization of Interchange to brazilian portuguese.

At this time the work is arround 65% done. I expect to post the first
release early september.

Thanks.

-- 
--< Mauricio Teixeira - Diretor Geral - mteixeira at webset.net
--< (+55+91) 3086 1326 / 9146 1326 - ICQ  # 92391942
--< http://www.webset.net - Bel?m/PA/Brazil



From mteixeira at webset.net  Wed Aug 22 18:46:01 2001
From: mteixeira at webset.net (Mauricio Teixeira)
Date: Wed Aug 22 18:46:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] pt_Br being worked on
Message-ID: <20010822195323-3414-1918@workset.webset.net>

Just to let you know, my name is Mauricio, I'm brazilian and I'm currently
working on localization of Interchange to brazilian portuguese.

At this time the work is arround 65% done. I expect to post the first
release early september.

See you later.

-- 
--< Mauricio Teixeira - Diretor Geral - mteixeira at webset.net
--< (+55+91) 3086 1326 / 9146 1326 - ICQ  # 92391942
--< http://www.webset.net - Bel?m/PA/Brazil



From racke at linuxia.de  Thu Aug 23 21:35:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Thu Aug 23 21:35:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] pt_Br being worked on
In-Reply-To: "Mauricio Teixeira"'s message of "22 Aug 2001 19:49:35 ADT"
References: <20010822194935-3384-32164@workset.webset.net>
Message-ID: <87heuydyv1.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

"Mauricio Teixeira" <mteixeira at webset.net> writes:

> Just to let you know, my name is Mauricio, I'm brazilian and I'm currently
> working on localization of Interchange to brazilian portuguese.
> 
> At this time the work is arround 65% done. I expect to post the first
> release early september.

What parts of Interchange do you localizing ?

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From racke at linuxia.de  Thu Aug 23 23:03:00 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Thu Aug 23 23:03:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
In-Reply-To: racke@linuxia.de's message of "22 Aug 2001 10:40:31 +0200"
References: <014601c12abd$d4729870$0800a8c0@veriton> <87elq4pjwg.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <871ym2cg7o.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg (Racke)) writes:

> "Chen Naor" <chen at lilux.co.il> writes:
> 
> > Hello List,
> > 
> > I'm an old Minivend user and I decided that is time to move on to
> > interchange.
> > I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
> > I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.
> > The Normal translation is easy and I can see the Hebrew characters with no
> > problems.
> > But as usual the main issue with Hebrew is that it is written from right to
> > left.
> 
> Thank for your quite helpful suggestion, Chen !
> 
> IMHO the best way to do this:
> Add MV_LANG_DIRECTION=ltr to default.cfg, any "special" locales
> may change this.
> The usertag mm_locale (called by every UI page) 
> will set a scratch variable accordingly and this
> sets the direction in UI_STD_HEAD.

OK, I implemented this and checked it into CVS. 
What browser software one needs to see this actually ?

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From chen at lilux.co.il  Fri Aug 24 03:34:00 2001
From: chen at lilux.co.il (Chen Naor)
Date: Fri Aug 24 03:34:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
References: <014601c12abd$d4729870$0800a8c0@veriton> <87elq4pjwg.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <871ym2cg7o.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <002201c12c77$72d979b0$0800a8c0@veriton>

Hi Stefan,

It will work with MSIE 4 and up Mozilla 0.9 and up Netscape 6.0 and up and
Konqueror (I checked V2.1.1).
The character set to work with called Hebrew logical - windows-1255 or I
think that in Linux it is called - cp-1255 (note: Not Hebrew visual!!! - it
is not the standard any more).
The big majority of the Hebrew internet users are MSIE users (about 98%).

I have some question about the Locale method of the UI/IC that I not clearly
understand.
Is there a good documentation about it?

For all of you, have a nice weekend

Chen



> racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg (Racke)) writes:
>
> > "Chen Naor" <chen at lilux.co.il> writes:
> >
> > > Hello List,
> > >
> > > I'm an old Minivend user and I decided that is time to move on to
> > > interchange.
> > > I'm starting to translate the UI to Hebrew (Israel).
> > > I added the file he_IL.cfg to the directory.
> > > The Normal translation is easy and I can see the Hebrew characters
with no
> > > problems.
> > > But as usual the main issue with Hebrew is that it is written from
right to
> > > left.
> >
> > Thank for your quite helpful suggestion, Chen !
> >
> > IMHO the best way to do this:
> > Add MV_LANG_DIRECTION=ltr to default.cfg, any "special" locales
> > may change this.
> > The usertag mm_locale (called by every UI page)
> > will set a scratch variable accordingly and this
> > sets the direction in UI_STD_HEAD.
>
> OK, I implemented this and checked it into CVS.
> What browser software one needs to see this actually ?
>
> Ciao
>         Racke
>
> --
> Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like
Courier.
>
> For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
> (URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone:
0041-1-3884400)
> _______________________________________________
> interchange-i18n mailing list
> interchange-i18n at interchange.redhat.com
> http://interchange.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-i18n



From racke at linuxia.de  Fri Aug 24 04:10:01 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Fri Aug 24 04:10:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Hebrew locale
In-Reply-To: "Chen Naor"'s message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:33:19 +0200"
References: <014601c12abd$d4729870$0800a8c0@veriton> <87elq4pjwg.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <871ym2cg7o.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <002201c12c77$72d979b0$0800a8c0@veriton>
Message-ID: <87lmk998wk.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

"Chen Naor" <chen at lilux.co.il> writes:

> Hi Stefan,
> 
> It will work with MSIE 4 and up Mozilla 0.9 and up Netscape 6.0 and up and
> Konqueror (I checked V2.1.1).
> The character set to work with called Hebrew logical - windows-1255 or I
> think that in Linux it is called - cp-1255 (note: Not Hebrew visual!!! - it
> is not the standard any more).
> The big majority of the Hebrew internet users are MSIE users (about 98%).
> 
> I have some question about the Locale method of the UI/IC that I not clearly
> understand.
> Is there a good documentation about it?

No, unfortunately not. But you may ask any questions here.

Cheers
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From mteixeira at webset.net  Fri Aug 24 10:23:00 2001
From: mteixeira at webset.net (Mauricio Teixeira)
Date: Fri Aug 24 10:23:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Re: pt_Br being worked on
In-Reply-To: <87heuydyv1.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
References: <20010822194935-3384-32164@workset.webset.net>
    <87heuydyv1.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>
Message-ID: <20010824112933-1143-14893@workset.webset.net>

On 24 Aug 2001 03:34:58 +0200, Stefan Hornburg (Racke) said:

>  What parts of Interchange do you localizing ?

Jon Jensen asked me to work with th UI (dist/lib/UI/locales/pt_BR.cfg).

-- 
--< Mauricio Teixeira - Diretor Geral - mteixeira at webset.net
--< (+55+91) 3086 1326 / 9146 1326 - ICQ  # 92391942
--< http://www.webset.net - Bel?m/PA/Brazil



From chen at lilux.co.il  Tue Aug 28 17:53:01 2001
From: chen at lilux.co.il (Chen Naor)
Date: Tue Aug 28 17:53:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] more Hebrew locale issues
References: <20010822194935-3384-32164@workset.webset.net>    <87heuydyv1.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de> <20010824112933-1143-14893@workset.webset.net>
Message-ID: <001601c13014$27eedfd0$0800a8c0@veriton>

Hello List,

I found more problems while translating the UI to Hebrew.

As with MiniMate MiniVend's admin interface, there are characters encode
decode problems.
In general where there are lines:
HTML::Entities::encode($foo);
In this case you should add before:
my $DECODE_CHARS = qq{[<"\000-\037};
and change the line to: HTML::Entities::encode($foo, $DECODE_CHARS);
And there are the decode lines:
my $DECODE_CHARS = qq{[<"\000-\037\177-\377};
that have to be changed to:
my $DECODE_CHARS = qq{[<"\000-\037};

I'm working on the changes but it will take some time.
I thought it would be wise to give some starting point to those who want to
work on the subject.

Best regards

Chen










From mheins at redhat.com  Fri Aug 31 09:58:01 2001
From: mheins at redhat.com (Mike Heins)
Date: Fri Aug 31 09:58:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Internationalizing Foundation
Message-ID: <20010831095749.A29212@bill.heins.net>

Dear All,

We will be starting the internationalization effort on Foundation 
in a few days.

Obviously, we will need help with translation, but we also have
quite a few issues to decide.

    1. Internationalized pages -- should we start fresh and have a
       pages_i18n directory in addition to the default US-centric
       pages? How about templates/regions and templates/components?

    2. Product database structure. There are several options:

       a. One big table with new columns description_de,
	  description_nl, etc. This is my least favorite.

       b. Separate tables for each language, with empty fields falling
	  through to the default products. Basically, this means

	    Locale de_DE ProductFiles products_de products Locale
	    nl_NL ProductFiles products_nl products

	  etc.

       c. Separate tables *not in ProductFiles* with product
	  description information.

       There may be more that others can think of.

    3. Pricing -- should we provide easily selectable ability to
       maintain separate prices for each currency or should we
       concentrate on PriceDivide.

    4. Checkout forms -- should we build a different form for each
       locality, or try and do one big form?

    5. Text messages -- should we use

		[L CODE]The text.[/L]
	 or
		[L]The text.[/L]
	 or
		[LC]
			The text.
			[de_DE] Der text [/de_DE]
			[es_ES] El texto [/es_ES]
		[/LC]

	or a combination?

Any other issues that are on peoples minds? I have tried very hard to
give the tools for internationalization in Interchange, but obviously
I am a monolingual American and often have blind spots. We need to think
about things which will make the internationalization effort outstanding.

In particular, if you have experience with the successes and failures of
other programs and what we might do to emulate or avoid those, it would
be very helpful.

Best,
Mike 
-- 
Red Hat, Inc., 3005 Nichols Rd., Hamilton, OH  45013
phone +1.513.523.7621      <mheins at redhat.com>

Just because something is obviously happening doesn't mean something
obvious is happening. --Larry Wall


From djenkins at redhat.com  Fri Aug 31 10:35:01 2001
From: djenkins at redhat.com (Dave Jenkins)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:35:01 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Internationalizing Foundation
References: <20010831095749.A29212@bill.heins.net>
Message-ID: <3B8FA06A.1000500@redhat.com>

Mike Heins wrote:
 > 1. Internationalized pages -- should we start fresh and have a pages_i18n
 >  directory in addition to the default US-centric pages? How about
 > templates/regions and templates/components?

That would be good.  Would these templates be available as separate RPM
files?

 >
 > 2. Product database structure. There are several options:
 >
 > a. One big table with new columns description_de, 	  description_nl,
 >  etc. This is my least favorite.

No.  I've worked to translate such websites-- more often than not, our
Spansih translator would get confused and enter the descriptions in the
French column, the German would put her texts in the Spanish, etc.  Too
confusing.
 >
 > b. Separate tables for each language, with empty fields falling 	
 > through to the default products. Basically, this means
 >
 > 	    Locale de_DE ProductFiles products_de products Locale 	 nl_NL 
ProductFiles
 >  products_nl products
 >
 > 	  etc.
 >
 > c. Separate tables *not in ProductFiles* with product 	  description
information.
 >


That should work.  It should be clear very early on which database I (as
a language-specific translator or product manager) wish to edit.  For
example: as the Japanese translator for a site, I should come into the
Admin UI, select my UI language, select which Db I want to work on
(jp_JA, *_jp) and proceed through the products section.  All fields
would contain the default texts, which I would then update into Japanese.

 > 3. Pricing -- should we provide easily selectable ability to maintain
separate prices for each currency or should we concentrate on
 > PriceDivide.

Hmmm... That could go either way.

 >
 > 4. Checkout forms -- should we build a different form for each
 > locality, or try and do one big form?

One big form becomes unwieldy.  It may make sense for us as developers,
but not for the customer.
I would vote for separate forms for each locality (along with the
separate templates).



From racke at linuxia.de  Fri Aug 31 10:49:00 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:49:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Internationalizing Foundation
In-Reply-To: Mike Heins's message of "Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:57:49 -0400"
References: <20010831095749.A29212@bill.heins.net>
Message-ID: <87elpsnv3j.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

Mike Heins <mheins at redhat.com> writes:

> Dear All,
> 
> We will be starting the internationalization effort on Foundation 
> in a few days.
> 
> Obviously, we will need help with translation, but we also have
> quite a few issues to decide.
> 
>     1. Internationalized pages -- should we start fresh and have a
>        pages_i18n directory in addition to the default US-centric
>        pages? How about templates/regions and templates/components?

I don't think we need completely separate page trees. IMHO it
is not necessary and is bad for maintenance. It may make sense
for some pages to have separate versions for US and i18n.
 
> 
>     2. Product database structure. There are several options:
> 
>        a. One big table with new columns description_de,
> 	  description_nl, etc. This is my least favorite.
> 
>        b. Separate tables for each language, with empty fields falling
> 	  through to the default products. Basically, this means
> 
> 	    Locale de_DE ProductFiles products_de products Locale
> 	    nl_NL ProductFiles products_nl products
> 
> 	  etc.
> 
>        c. Separate tables *not in ProductFiles* with product
> 	  description information.
> 
>        There may be more that others can think of.

We could use the LocaleDatabase too.

> 
>     3. Pricing -- should we provide easily selectable ability to
>        maintain separate prices for each currency or should we
>        concentrate on PriceDivide.
> 
>     4. Checkout forms -- should we build a different form for each
>        locality, or try and do one big form?
> 
>     5. Text messages -- should we use
> 
> 		[L CODE]The text.[/L]
> 	 or
> 		[L]The text.[/L]
> 	 or
> 		[LC]
> 			The text.
> 			[de_DE] Der text [/de_DE]
> 			[es_ES] El texto [/es_ES]
> 		[/LC]
> 
> 	or a combination?

I prefer [L], but for lengthy text chunks [LC] is good to.
At several place we'll need [msg] too.

> 
> Any other issues that are on peoples minds? I have tried very hard to
> give the tools for internationalization in Interchange, but obviously
> I am a monolingual American and often have blind spots. We need to think
> about things which will make the internationalization effort outstanding.

Yeah, this is a quite a mouthful :-)

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)


From racke at linuxia.de  Fri Aug 31 10:51:00 2001
From: racke at linuxia.de (Stefan Hornburg Racke)
Date: Fri Aug 31 10:51:00 2001
Subject: [interchange-i18n] Internationalizing Foundation
In-Reply-To: Dave Jenkins's message of "Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:34:18 -0400"
References: <20010831095749.A29212@bill.heins.net> <3B8FA06A.1000500@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <87ae0gnv13.fsf@snowflake.linuxia.de>

Dave Jenkins <djenkins at redhat.com> writes:


[...]

> 
> That should work.  It should be clear very early on which database I (as
> a language-specific translator or product manager) wish to edit.  For
> example: as the Japanese translator for a site, I should come into the
> Admin UI, select my UI language, select which Db I want to work on
> (jp_JA, *_jp) and proceed through the products section. 

Yes, this is a good idea.

Ciao
        Racke

-- 
Racke happily hacks Interchange and maintains Debian packages like Courier.

For projects and other business stuff please refer to COBOLT NetServices
(URL: http://www.cobolt.net; Email: info at cobolt.net; Phone: 0041-1-3884400)