[ic] Thanks JOHN ... Beima's Response!

Mon, 02 Apr 2001 08:49:29 -0400

Thanks for your thoughtful and complete response ... very helpful.

Look forward to hearing more from all of you.

Christopher

At 09:20 PM 4/1/2001 -0600, John Beima wrote:
>G'Day Christopher,
>
>You know I have been tossing the idea over and over of writing a book on
>Interchange/Minivend or offering to teach classes on it. Ever since Akopia
>released their first version of the documentation.
>
>The reason this came up after Akopia took over, was every new version that 
>Mike
>put out, always revealed a little more... Opened a few more hidden doors. All
>the Akopia versions have done is re-word it and explain nothing more. In 
>fact I
>have found those releases to be a waste of paper (No offence to Akopia! I 
>always
>take the pod files to a printer to have professionally printed book versions.
>The releases from Akopia really didn't need to be printed...)...
>
>Let me say this to start with.... Even though the documentation does explain
>pretty much everything, it is made from the stand point of a Perl programmer.
>Just about every question you have asked is explained in those files... Except
>for the report/receipt.html files. Which ironicly has been one of the best
>questions I have seen on the list in the last several months...
>
>Also as it has always been stated... The demos are just that demos. They 
>are NOT
>completed stores, they are there for you to look at pull appart and guide 
>you to
>writting your own, or to be modified and completed to suite your needs...
>
>Just like when I started with this list >3-4< YEARS ago this was a great place
>to deal with complicated challanges. There has been good coding examples to
>solve real problems that teach you how to use the mml/iml language itself.
>
>Don't confuse a simple Markup Language with mml or iml. They are extremely
>powerful Markup Languages. In some ways even more powerful that PHP, when used
>correctly.
>
>However getting back on topic, when I have some time this week, I will answer
>your questions, and help you on the road to being that Interchange Expert...
>Then maybe the list can get back to REAL challanges instead of silly little
>things...
>
>John Beima
>
>
>
>Quoting Christopher VanOosterhout <chris@vanoosterhout.com>:
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Thanks for the offer.  You suggested that if there is a question about
> > how
> > to use the documentation, then we should ask.  I appreciate your offer.
> > I
> > think that may be helpful to a lot of us.  InterChange seems to be a
> > great
> > program and I am really enjoy working with it.  I have read through ever
> >
> > single page of the documentation on the Red Hat interchange site (the
> > six
> > PDF documents) ... and very frankly Jim is right that the references in
> > the
> > documentation do not relate directly to the software package currently
> > being distributed.  There is a lot of reference to simple and another
> > sample store that does not exist in the current distribution (at least
> > as
> > far as I can see).
> >
> > I know that in the open source world we have to be willing to dig in and
> > do
> > some learning for our self ... and I want to do that.  However since you
> >
> > have suggested that we ask about how to use the documentation, I would
> > like
> > to take you up on this.  Maybe then we would not waste so much of your
> > time
> > with issues that we should be able to find in the documentation if we
> > only
> > had the training.
> >
> > One of the topics that you may want to illustrate on is the topic of
> > email
> > confirmation to the customer.  In the FAQ online it says to look into
> > the
> > documentation.  In the documentation there is a simple three line
> > statement
> > talking about how we should use the [mail...] tag ... the problem is
> > that
> > in my searching both of the Web site and the pdf documentation there is
> > no
> > details that I can find on the use of the [mail...] tag (and yes I
> > understand that the dos are not literal.  Any while I have started my
> > store
> > on the path of using the confirmation provided in construct, I have no
> > idea
> > how it is happening or what actually envokes it ... For instance why is
> > the
> > report. file used instead of the receipt.html file.  Things like that
> > ...
> > and simply what are the options for this feature.
> >
> > I understand there is no obligation for anyone to answer any of these
> > questions ... I know that you folks are all busy and if you can not or
> > choose not to answer I understand and will continue to struggle along.
> > I
> > am not trying to get a free ride ... in fact I would like to contribute
> > and
> > help any way that I can ... and maybe the best way to start is learning
> > more about how the experts suggest we use the documentation.
> >
> > I appreciate all of your expertise and help.
> >
> > Christopher Van Oosterhout
> >
> >
> >
> > >The documentation is actaually very good and very helpfull, once it
> > sets in on
> > >how Mike has written it. Which can be confusing... Then ask HOW to use
> > the
> > >documentation.
> > >
> > >Simply put questions that are ignored are most likely do to the fact
> > they have
> > >been asked 50 times before or they are simply in the documentation if
> > you read
> > >it...
> > >
> > >I am tired of getting 20 messages a day from people who want a free
> > ride.
> > >If you
> > >plan on installing Interchange and then selling your services to the
> > public,
> > >then the least you can do is READ THE DOCUMENTATION from start to
> > finish!
> > >
> > >Also it has become more and more anoying people saying "Hey this is a
> > >bug!" when
> > >it is in fact a feature put there, that is they took to the time to
> > READ THE
> > >DOCUMENTATION they would know why it is happeneing...
> > >
> > >Frankly quit wasting the lists bandwidth and time with questions that
> > are
> > >answered in the documentation...
> > >
> > >John Beima
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Quoting Jim Balcom <jim@idk-enterprises.com>:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, John Beima wrote:
> > > >
> > > > JB>>Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 14:52:20 -0600 (MDT)
> > > > JB>>From: John Beima <jbeima@reality.palb.com>
> > > > JB>>Reply-To: interchange-users@lists.akopia.com
> > > > JB>>To: interchange-users@lists.akopia.com
> > > > JB>>Subject: Re: [ic] Construct Us Demo Colors (Need to convert to a
> > > > JB>>    variable)
> > > > JB>>
> > > > JB>>Actually my last resoonce to you applies here to... Read the
> > > > documentation...
> > > >
> > > > Frankly, I would much prefer to deal with the non-responses that I
> > have
> > > > been (not) getting to my questions than to have to deal with
> > smarta**
> > > > answers like yours.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what documentation you have, but I downloaded, printed
> > out
> > > > and bound the documentation that came in the PDF format. It has no
> > > > comparison to anything that I am seeing on my computer!  I don't
> > find
> > > > it to be useful at all. I've been programming for 23 years, and
> > writing
> > > > in C for 15 years. I can't begin to comprehend the frustration that
> > > > newcomers are having to go through when I consider the frustration
> > > > level that I am at.
> > > >
> > > > And, then to see your smarta** response!
> > > >
> > > > -= Jim =-
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Jim's Linux-Operated Underground Bomb Shelter
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Tagline for Sunday, April 01, 2001 at 17:00 PM:
> > > > All I need to know I learned from my cat.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This Linux System has been up 45 hours
> > > >
> > > > My web page: http://www.idk-enterprises.com
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Interchange-users mailing list
> > > > Interchange-users@lists.akopia.com
> > > > http://lists.akopia.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >John Beima
> > >jbeima@palb.com, support@alocalagent.com, and support@alocalchurch.com
> > >
> > >P.A.L.B. Systems - Phone: (780)451-1086 - Fax: (780)447-4760
> > >11639-122 Street, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, T5M 0B6
> > >
> > >Affordable Web Pages - Phone: (888)932-9990 - Fax: (256)351-7297
> > >2713B Spring Place SW, Decatur, Alabama, United States, 35603
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Interchange-users mailing list
> > >Interchange-users@lists.akopia.com
> > >http://lists.akopia.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Interchange-users mailing list
> > Interchange-users@lists.akopia.com
> > http://lists.akopia.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
> >
>
>
>
>John Beima
>jbeima@palb.com, support@alocalagent.com, and support@alocalchurch.com
>
>P.A.L.B. Systems - Phone: (780)451-1086 - Fax: (780)447-4760
>11639-122 Street, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, T5M 0B6
>
>Affordable Web Pages - Phone: (888)932-9990 - Fax: (256)351-7297
>2713B Spring Place SW, Decatur, Alabama, United States, 35603
>
>_______________________________________________
>Interchange-users mailing list
>Interchange-users@lists.akopia.com
>http://lists.akopia.com/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users