[ic] re: what is help response demonstrates the problem

[interchange-users@icdevgroup.org]

On 20 May 2003 at 0:50, rick kershner wrote:

> This is exactly what I was referring to. Bully for you that you find
> most of your answers in the archives. So effing what?
> 
> I do not give a good g - d  how you feel about "most people", etc. If
> you feel this way don't answer the questions; why waste everyone
> else's time.
> 
> If these questions have been answered previously, the proper help
> thing to do is to give the questioner the URL to the answer as in:
> "The answer can be found here
> http://www.icdev.org/11111/22222/33333.htm" Nebulously saying "it is
> in the archives" is helping no-one; hence the repeating of the same
> question.
> 
> The other help alternative is to go into the archive, cut and paste
> the answer into a response, and send it - off-list (privately) - to
> the questioner.  
> 
 If the question is about compiling the perl dist, give them a Perl URL
> to one of the Perl Help sites, or reread the question to see if it is
> unique to that version/configuration/etc. (why do you think people
> send that info?)
> 
> re: ******************************************************************
>  "I spend an inordinate amount of time sorting through the list with
> questions about "How to compile Perl?" or "How do I find the
> permissions of a file?" or "Can I use IC on a host with only ftp
> access?" to find the one answer buried in it.
> 
> I say to them all who do the above, "Go to 'Barnes and Nobles'
> and buy a book on UNIX basics" or the quickest answer RTFM. 
> 
> I personally am tired of the (paraphrase) "I have no clue about
> computers and especially UNIX/LINUX/Perl could you help me?".  "
> **********************************************************************
> **
> 
> I could not have demonstrated what is NOT help better.You have an
> attitude problem: this is not a "help" attitude. A "help" attitude
> (customer service attitude, et. al. ) is typified by a basic respect
> for the customer - this demonstrates none.

It takes time to find an answer to a question and if the people responding to the list 
were doing that it would take up too much of their time. Time that they are providing for 
IC for free.

If you are looking for customer service please contact one of the several IC consultants 
on this list.
 
> A help attitude is demonstrated by actually providing some help to the
> customer regardless of how you feel about it; in fact always ask if
> there is anything else you can do to help. A help attitude does not
> assume that you know what the customer is thinking or trying to say;
> you have to give-and-take; communicate to develop that. A help
> attitude does not assume you know that individuals system and
> configuration.
> 
> As an example, I said that I had sent a question about authorize nets
> SIM process and had anyone tried it, etc. and all I got in response
> was people who had not READ the message and responded about AIM
> method. This was no help; had no chance to be help, was totally
> irrelevant and irresponsible. The bottom line was I got several
> response not one of which responded to my question. This was no lone
> example.
> 
> I understand you are tired of seeing the "I have no clue..." messages.
> Frankly, you can either help them have a clue or Grow up, get a clue
> yourself and shut up. the (OK I'll say it) CHILDISH response "it's in
> the archives" has no place in a HELP group. If ytou don't actually
> want to help the person why respond in the first place? Is this an EGO
> issue?

I don't know if its just me but all I need is someone to tell me its in the archives and I 
will use google to find it.

> 
> The point here is that help questions deserve helpful answers. If you
> don't want to give a helpful answer why are YOU posting at all?
> examine YOUR motives in posting. Moderators should moderate out all
> the childish non-answer answer posts as that will remove the
> motivation for them.

You should change YOUR attitude from give me all the answers to something is better 
than nothing, when it comes to free. This list is not moderated they just filter spam out.

> 
> Folks; everyone on this planet has some knowledge that other people
> don't and most have some specialized knowledge that most other people
> don't. Unix / Linux is not the end all / be all / do all and there
> should be no reason to act as if it is. My experience with UNIX starts
> back in 1978; could you use UNIX as it was then? MY IQ is 187; does
> that mean I know more than you about the UNIX / Linux
> flavor-of-the-month?

You don't need to know UNIX/LINUX if you aren't going to maintain the IC server and all 
you are going to do is setup the foundation demo from the web-based admin. BUT if 
you want to build a real IC application you MUST know UNIX/LINUX or whatever 
platform you are using.

> Respect people asking questions, no one said that having DB Admin /
> sys admin experience was a requirement for using Interchange. Most
> people are using Interchange not because of a conscious choice but
> because their host provides it as it is free (or Agora, or OS
> Commerce, or....). There is no reason to be abusive, and the
> non-answer answers are basically abusive. the attitude that other
> people have no clue is abusive. the attitude that their questions do
> not belong here are abusive.

A lot of people ASSUME that IC is a simple to use software like notepad. It isn't it is a 
development platform similar to coldfusion. IC is not just the foundation demo that you 
can use only for an online store. IC (with perl) has endless posibilties you just need to 
learn that and it can't be taught overnight, it requires that you put some effort into things 
and try them out.

> 
> How can I say it Better; Please go away if you are more a nuisance
> than a help? --

Think of IC as a car that you have bought and the list archive/list disscuions as an 
owners manual it will tell you how to turn on the car or how to use cruise control but it 
won't teach you how to drive. You must learn that yourself through practice, maybe 
some driving lessons (friend/family/professional) or hire a driver (ic consultant).

I hope you don't find me rude because that wasn't my intent, I was just trying to help you 
understand that the resources provided for this list are voluntered by people wanting to 
help others.

Regards,
Gurs