[ic] Threaded perl (re: debian bug #203579)

[Karl Schmidt]

Mike Heins wrote:
> 
> I don't have any problems -- I don't use a threaded Perl. If you want
> to spend many, many hours chasing bugs in other people's programs, go
> right ahead. But when there are many, many problems that are impossible
> to characterize I won't even start.

I'm not asking you to - I just want enough information so I can reproduce the 
problem well enough so I can.
> 
> 
>>I've also been scouring the web for a clue as to how to reproduce this bug. 
> 
> 
> What bug? 
<snip>
> 
> If I thought there was one bug, 
<snip>

  > I don't pretend to know the thought process that the Debian folks put
> to shipping an experimental feature with known bugs on their production
> system.

I'm working with Debian testing - I'm just trying to get a fix on a bug so it 
can at least be reported.

> 
> With Red Hat, having worked there, I happen to know they are a bunch
> of Python-heads. I wish I could categorically state I am sure that
> they wouldn't take a private glee in shipping a broken Perl, but I
> can't say that.

Both scripting languages that have a use - I don't have a dog in that battle, 
Both scripting languages are good for things that you want to change without 
recompiling for applications that are not time critical. I've used perl for just 
that but not PHP. I just walked away from trying to use OSCommerce - written in 
PHP as it looked too messy to maintain. It is not part of Debian - Interchange 
is. I quit running Redhat over a year ago as they seemed to develop an attitude 
- I think I'm on your side. I'm just surprised that no one has filed a bug - not 
that it should be you.

> Again, shipping the threaded Perl was a very irresponsible thing to do
> in my opinion, on both the part of Red Hat and Debian. 

I agree -- it looks like threads are in Debian stable. perl 5.6.1-8.8 while it 
should only be in experimental or unstable until the author says it is ready for 
prime time.

>>How are you testing it?
> 
> 
> Running IC, and running the regression tests. It would not work before
> with Fedora Core 1, and it does with Fedora Core 3.
> 
What regression tests - can I get a hold of them?

> 
>>>You can put this in your .bashrc for your interchange user:
>>>
>>>	export MINIVEND_FORCE_THREADS=1
>>>
>>>At that point, try it out. If it works for you, fine. 
>>
>>How do I test for the problem?
> 
> 
> Bottom line seems to be that some people want me to spend hours, days, or
> weeks chasing this. I won't do it until I think it makes sense.

I'm not asking that - I just want to know how to test for it myself.

Jeff wrote:
 >>You could move the critical parts to a strictly typed compilable language?
 >
 > And this would affect the thread safety issue how?

I"ve read that the problem was(is) in perl - if you can bypass whatever the 
problem is by not using perl this issue could go away as it doesn't look like 
the distributions have been rational about this.

 >
 > The implication that perl programmers do not know C (or x86 assembly,
 > even) is somewhat ignorant.

I never meant to imply that - I did try to gently say there are alternatives 
that may be more appropriate for daemons and time critical applications. (OK, 
I'm not crazy about perl - but I've used it - so if you think I'm implying 
anything about perl programmers it includes me too.)

I don't think threads make sense in a scripting language (if you want 
performance compile something) But, Interchange is in perl - I'm being old that 
the testing-soon(?)-to-be-stable perl causes a problem. I don't see a bug filed, 
I just want to be able to test it and move the ball down the court.

 >
 > What if I said that the core DBI interface is already in C?

It would make me happy.

---- But I still don't know the symptoms of this threaded problem and how to 
test or recreate it?

I still don't know for sure if the problem is in libdbi-perl?

I think the threaded perl issue may have been fixed for interchange and I'm 
willing to spend a bit of time to see if it is.

All I'm asking is an answer these two questions so I can contribute OSS .

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Karl Schmidt                         EMail Karl at xtronics.com
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