[ic] Proposed New Bug Submission Method...

[IC-Admin]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, John Beima wrote:

> G'Day Folks,
> 
> Since it has become more and more obvious that submitting a bug via the
> developer.akopia.com is totally pointless if Mike doesn't agree with you. I
> sujest that all bugs from now on get submitted to the RedHat Developers 
> Network.
> 
> Being an owner of several RedHat products and a member of the RedHat 
> Developers Network, lets let this channel do what it has been put there
> for. Fix our problems.
> 
> After all Akopia is now a division of RedHat, so lets submit our bugs and
> complaints to RedHat and let them get the bugs fixed. This also gives us a 
> valid and suppored method of filing complaints if need be. Since again
> Akopia and Interchange now belong to RedHat.
> 
> Then again tyhis is just the opinion of a frustrated user.
> 
> 
> John Beima

Well, I think you make a mistake. 

I don't think that any Open Source company these days can afford
to play stupid and behave unprofessionally, letting personal ego issues
play the fiddle untuned and ruin the orchestra. To openly suggest that
there is a rift between RedHat and Mike Heins without they themselves
complaining about it here on the list, is IMHO, not only rude, but also
some of the things I detest most in the community of Open Source
supporters and developers. 

It's disgusting enough to watch and read about stuff like this on other
mailing lists and forums. (ESR vs. Linus for example). Let's not go
there. And though it itches in my fingers to comment on this, let's
not do it here.

I am a bit amazed that you think that a larger RH .net service
will react to any complaints faster. Usually, you might expect the
opposite. The larger a company and less personal a service gets, the
worse the service.

But as this hasn't been tested yet, I wouldn't even want to suggest or
comment on that. 

In any case I find it very bad business to play the current way of bug
reporting over Bugzilla versus a potential service via the RedHat network
out against each other. 

It's simply not the user's business to interfere with such internal
company's decisions. I for once think the process is very open. You
can follow which bugs have been reported, you can see how they get fixed
on the cvs list. If you look at the cvs list, there are several log notes
about what Mike Heins has done and he always mentions what kind of bug
was resolved with it. What more do you want ? 

I have seldom seen people revealing their bug reporting and fixing process
that much in the open. Mike Heins has proven how open minded he is,
putting himself through Openhack and dealing with the heat in the kitchen
quite bravely. I mean as long as you haven't done similar things, where
do you take the courage from to attack him without loosing your own
face ?

If you think Mike Heins is stubborn and doesn't listen. He does listen
and I guess he can be stubborn or adamant (as Stefan put it), but he is 
a fair man and has his reasons for being so. 

The engine of IC goes back to his code, it's his baby since 1995. What do
you  expect ? That he is not attached to what he created and doesn't let
go something he is not convinced of being helpful for the IC package
without a fight ? 

I think that is a pretty normal and healthy attitude, may be
not the easiest one to deal with, but certainly one, which any person who
takes his work seriously, would have. I guess the same would be true for
the earlier Tallyman and Akopia work. Merging all that code must have
been a horrible thing to go through. But they did and succeeded. 

In any case, I don't think it's the user's business to throw a match
and cause a possible fire here on the list.

If you are frustrated, go to /. and harrass the rest of the completely
frustrated and confused open source community there. On a lighter note,
there are worse things than to be frustrated. Just look at those 
and you feel better. :-)

BF