Re: [mv] mv_range_lock doesn't work in MV4!

[Birgitt Funk <birgitt@minivend.com>]

******    message to minivend-users from Birgitt Funk <birgitt@minivend.com>     ******




On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Hans-Joachim Leidinger wrote:

> ******    message to minivend-users from Hans-Joachim Leidinger <jojo@buchonline.net>     ******
> 
> Birgitt Funk schrieb:
> [snip]
> 
> Hi Birgitt,
> 
> > just wanted to let you know that your struggle and survival training
> > is watched with compassion from someone who has an idea how it feels...
> > was a little calf at one point in time and feel like an old dumb ox now...
> 
> I will not get any compassion! :-)) 

Yes, you do. (sigh - look up the dictionary and the meaning of
compassionate - I can't write German here...8-))

[snip]


> > is your strategy to teach the cow how to moooh and produce some milk ?
> 
> Hmmm...very difficult! For a cow? Hmmm...eat more grass and play classic
> music (Mozart?)! ;-) 

You know what a cow does ! (She has a strong stomach, but needs to chew
the Perl 12 times, before it gets digested properly 8-)).

> Well duh! First of all, i'm an old windows user and i is very difficult
> to get any informations about this and that in UNIX, Perl and whatsoever
> ASAP. I know, i can use "man man", but i get a lot of pages without any
> structure, index, etc. and with one eye at my clock (the time is running
> out) and another eye at the man page or book, it is a difficult to get
> an usefull informations.
> It is difficult to tell you about the best way for minivend. But i miss
> the basic anywhere in the document or FAQ, how to do, if you have any
> trouble. There are a lot of way, how can someone check anything what is
> going wrong? For example:
> 
> - If any is going wrong, look into your error.log first!
> - I miss an output of "make test", what perl modules is missing or
> usefull? (without libwww, [set mv_no_session_id]1[/set] doesn't work)
> - Some part of the minivend documentation isn't readable for a non
> english speaking people. Some part of english document is very
> difficult. 2 or more examples of any MV tags would improve the document
> very well.
> - .....Oooopps! I know, there are a lot of way, but it is late and i
> can't write all my knowledge at this moment.

Joachim, don't worry. I wanted to demonstrate something and I think I did.

The question is, if MiniVend is an application which still can be learned
by users like Joachim and how. This is a rhetorical question, as I know
how to go over such task and what it means when you are outside of the
insider's club of professionals.

The question I want the list to think about, is if there are ways to make
the learning process easier for people like Joachim (and me and other 
naive cows and oxes) or not and if there is any desire to do so. Just out
of compassion so to speak 8-). ?

> 
> 
> > How much time and which books to you use to teach yourself programming
> > in Perl and system administration in the UNIX environment ?
> 
> I need more time to read the book (I've the camel book, the cookbook for
> perl and hmmm...perl for advanced user) and to understand perl and UNIX.
> But i think, this is not the big problem. The big problem is the
> minivend document and the document has to less examples. If is use the
> minivend tags as a special HTML tags, this make make live easy and this
> was my first step with minivend.
> 
> 

Do you read the O'Reilly's English Perl books or the German ones ?


> > The question is also more general, my observation is that students
> > with a structured learning experience in programming in the UNIX
> > environment  make that jump from being a newbie html/webdesigner
> > to being a programmer/webmaster/sysadm much, much faster and easier than
> > completely selftaught people outside the sysadm/ISP/programmer
> > industry. Once in a while those outsiders run into MV and are getting
> > hooked to train themselves to do the jump.
> 
> This students has _one_ important experience. They know _how_ to get the
> usefull informations via "man", "perldoc", "perlfunc", "grep" and
> whatsoever ASAP.
> 

But that's something you can easily learn at home too. Well, in Germany
you would pay too much for online reading, so you need to print out all
the online docs. Which is better anyhow.

>  
> > What would make this training for these outsiders more efficient in your
> > opinion ?
> 
> Hmmm...this questions is difficult to answer, because M.H. has warn all
> the readers about the complex stuff of minivend and good experience in
> perl is required. But i believe, it will make the training very easier,
> if there are a list of hints/suggestions, how to help yourself, if
> something is going wrong. I believe, it make easier, if the search
> engine of the minivend mailarchiv has more features (the same like
> advanced search page of dejanews).
> 
> Hmmm...i believe, if there is any recipient for any suggestions to
> improve the minivend document, FAQ, install instructions and so on, this
> will animate more people to write usefull informations.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Joachim
> 
> BTW: _I_ help any people, because without any helps from this list, i'm
> not able to solve any trouble or problem with minivend. I think, this is
> the price and all people, who need any helps from this list _has_ to
> _pay_ this price.
> 

You are very brave and courageous, actually. That's why you get the
compassion, many people help you on the list and you are helping
others. I like it a lot. And your comments especially, including
this one. Thanks.

Birgitt

> 
> -- 
> -------------Hans-Joachim Leidinger---------------------
> 
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